ダナ・ホワイト：UFCを作った男

I was telling you dude, I watch your press conferences. I was telling I was having dinner with a founder of $150 million company like a couple days ago. And they're like, "Hey, can you help us hire or find somebody to be like a chief storyteller?" It's like, "No, that's the founder's job." And they asked like, "Do you have any good examples?" I go, "Watch Dana White's press conferences after the fights." It's a perfect example. It's like, he's the biggest fan of his own product. Is that how you describe the way you approach the company you built?

The UFC was close to bankruptcy. You bought it for like $2 million with your partners. I want to talk about you know, the fact that you guys went It was like, "Oh, a $2 million company into maybe a $20 million company." It's like, "Hey, you missed the part where they went in the hole by tens of millions." I want to go talk about that. But you you brought up something like, "We bought it. We had never done live events. We didn't do production. We didn't do anything." And then I heard you say like, "But we were just fans. We were just trying to build the fights that we want to see in the way that we want to see them."

Talk about like the first few events because how many events do you guys put on a year now?

The fact that you were doing less means that you were learning slower, too. Are you just There was just no way you could do more than five?

like that that like trough.

So, they put up the 2 million.

I think you got like 10 or 20% of the company and then your job is to run it, right?

Now it sounds like they're investing a couple more million every year.

Was it making 10 million a year in revenue and you guys were spending another 10 like

So, anything you could put a UFC logo on.

[clears throat]

He's still in the public eye.

What do you think happened overnight from Lorenzo calls you, he's like, "Man, I'm burning we're we're just dumping all this money. Try to see if you can find a buyer." Calls you back the next day.

[laughter]

Yeah.

[snorts]

Mark Burnett's the guy who did Survivor, right?

The Apprentice?

Okay.

Mhm.

Let me push you there. This is why I tell founders of like tech companies to watch your your press conferences though because the authenticity, I think this is why you have this like cool like following and people really try like the people like you really try to root for you, right? And it's like you'll say at the end of like, "That fight sucked. We thought it was going to be X and it turned out to be Y." It's like, "Yeah, that I have eyes. I'm not going to lie to you." Like that fight sucks. Just like if for founders like, "Yeah, we … that up. Like that was a bad experience. I wouldn't like that happen to you either." Like they don't try to lie

Yeah.

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Well, we were pitching everybody um and at the time, I mean, everything in life is about timing. Uh I think it was the Nashville Network had switched over to Spike TV, which was labeling itself as the network for men. And we're like, man, if we don't fit here, where do we fit, right? So, we go in, we pitch these guys. They're not really interested. You know, what it's going to cost them. So, we said, well, we'll pay for the whole thing. We'll pay for it, you just put it on your air. They liked that idea better.

Yep.

100% There's no downside to them.

Yeah. They had spent a shitload of money on a bunch of content that didn't work.

So, at the time, it's the last $10 million investment we're going to make in the UFC.

Yes.

That's it. It's a wrap. If The Ultimate Fighter didn't work, it's over. So, the last $10 million investment, which sucks at the time. We're We're investing another $10 million. But, what doesn't suck is exactly what you just said. The thing is a runaway hit. The numbers just keep going like this. And then the finale, when we're at the finale, when Stephan Bonnar and Forrest Griffin fought, when the fight was over and everybody in the place was stomping their feet saying one more round and that you know, we go up we give them both contracts. I was like, I don't give what happens. This is end it This is going to end up somewhere. And Spike TV execs took us out in the alley of the arena and we did a deal on a napkin.

Yeah.

to get a deal done now. We want to shake hands on a you know, we didn't fill out a contract. But, here's some bullet points for the deal. We all agreed and shook hands and and there we were. But, if they would have paid for it, we wouldn't have been in the position that we were in where we own 100% of everything. So, while it sucked at the time to put up the next $10 million, it ended up being the greatest thing to ever happen to us.

compare Think about the growth in your company from that to now paying you you play the best

It's incredible. Okay. So, you do this deal with Spike TV. Now, this is we're like early 2000s. There's like no barely any There's almost no iPhones, right? There's no social media. There's none of like you you've done a really good job of in my opinion when I study the history of you UFC. It's like riding these technological waves. Like you adopt them early and then you use them as these giant tailwinds. You don't really resist like you see something working.

I remember you telling the story of like Joe Rogan asking you be on his podcast and then he described it as like it's kind of like the radio, but we put it online and you said

So, the was the TV the the vast majority of the revenue of the business at when you did this deal with Spike?

You guys tell start telling the stories really, really early. So, it's like before these people are competing on the reality show, you get to know who they are, what's important to them. They have very more varied backgrounds than like boxing. Boxing tried to do that, but like there's I love what you said. It's like when has there ever been trillions of dollars made and nothing's there at the end like in boxing.

You guys start telling the story on the show even before they're signed and then you keep what once they get to the UFC, then they're on the prelims, you keep telling the story over and over again over many, many years.

with Paramount, too? They get they get

Well, for the for like eight for eight billion

And boxing, too. I heard you say one time that uh you were there was almost like no revenue coming in and you had stumbled onto like you had all these DVDs. You just decided to put these fights on DVDs and then you did these compilations which I thought was a genius idea. It was like, "Okay, yeah, I could I could buy a DVD of a fight or I could see the best knockouts from this year or the best submissions." When did you have that idea?

This is before Spike, though.

dollar millions of dollars.

[laughter]

Yeah. Yeah, we we could have made a lot more money I think on the DVD side if I had focused more on that part of the business at the time. And when you're when you're in the moment like that, I mean, you expect DVDs to be forever.

Right? Who sees DVDs leaving and and and not So so you know, we're making great revenue on the DVDs and you don't expect that to go away. You expect that to keep coming, you know? If you look at our business in to today, 25 years. How fast technology has has gone in just 25 years from uh streaming. DVDs gone. You could know, all this stuff is streaming now. I remember being in my office and and these guys set up a meeting with me. And they brought in a computer and they're like, "This is the future. Streaming." And again, like the like the Joe Rogan podcast thing, they played it for me. Buffering, buffering, buffering, plays fine, you know, 5 10 seconds, buffering, buffering, buffering. I'm like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, this is going to be real fun to to to to do and watch, but if you look at from that meeting to where we are today, I always did have this dream where someday I believe that the world would continue to get smaller and everybody would be watching the the fight at the same time on the same channel around the world. Cuz when I grew up, we had channel 3, channel 5, channel 8, channel 13. When I was in high school, they got cable. We had like 30 channels then. And I believe we'd go back to channel 3, channel 5, and channel uh 3 8 and 13, but globally. So, who's it going to be? Paramount, YouTube, Amazon, you know, uh Netflix.

Yeah. Well, they were in it. We we were we were

We we were talking to them the whole time and and uh you know, what an incredible business they've built and and uh but the Ellisons are aggressive guys, you know, they're aggressive guys. Obviously financially, you know, powerful. And at literally the half yard line, they said, "Fuck it. We want everything." And they went after it.

It was great. It was great dealing with them. It was great dealing with Netflix. It was all a uh a good experience. Better than the experiences as had in the past in the go So, we're we're on we're on Spike TV. Right? And killing it. We're killing it. We're We're Other than cuz the WWE was on there for a certain amount of time while we were, too. Other than the WWE, I mean, we were the biggest thing on the network. So, I'm a … loyal guy as it is. So, listen, we we'd been on Spike TV for 100 years if we would ever. So, we end up going to lunch, Lorenzo and I, with a guy who was a big executive at the time with, you know, the whole CBS Viacom company. His name was Philippe Dauman. Okay? So, he calls himself Philippe Dauman. He's from … Jersey. His name's Phil Dooman.

But, one of the biggest douchebags of all … time. We go into this lunch and we got to listen to how … rich he is for the first 15, 20 minutes of the lunch. And uh And then he he tells us that he built the UFC. And if we don't like the offer he's making, he'll just build another one. That's literally what he said. And we left that meeting. I was like, that … he built the UFC, huh? Okay. Okay, Phil Dooman. We'll see. So, we end up leaving Spike TV and going to Fox and just everything happens for a reason. And uh yeah, that guy ended up being one of the biggest brand killers of all time. Old Phil Dooman. Uh MTV, … you know, think about all the Viacom legendary networks they had that this guy had sucked the life out of and killed.

That's a great story.

I love that story. Your high risk tolerance, though. Do you guys do any work with I was asking the team before. Do you know who Todd Graves is, the founder of Raising Cane's?

First of all, he should sponsor UFC.

Okay.

He's just like you cuz you get off on being told Danny, you can't do it.

We he did he did this show a few months ago and he's just like they told him a 23-year-old kid he starts Raising Cane's. His original idea was like, I'm going to sell … chicken fingers to drunk LSU students. And he couldn't

Oh, no, no, now

Yeah. And so, now obviously it's different, but like back then he was 23 years old, had no money. He literally risked his life on a … fishing boat in Alaska, and then maxed out his credit cards. That's how he funded the first Raising Cane's, which he built with his own hands. We went to the first one in Baton Rouge. It's crazy he built this with his own hands, but there's so much similarities between you two. Cuz he said on the show, he's like, "Entrepreneurs are not taking enough risk. They're too scared of risk. They need to take more risk. If you truly believe in it and you know this it cuz he believes that God put him on this earth to be good at chicken fingers.

Literally. And and now he owns over 90% of the company. It's like what's $20 selling … chicken fingers?

There's nobody else in the world that loves it. We we were just talking that we mutual friend in and Jared. You were just on the phone with him before. His brother, Josh, has a great quote where he's like, you know, if you want to pick somebody, if you're going to back somebody, and you could choose the most experienced, the best, the person has the most money, or the person that wants it the most. He's like, you always pick the person that wants it the most. It's very obvious that you even said I think you when you moved back to Vegas, you're like, "I could I was a bellman. Guess what? I'm going to take a risk cuz I could be a bellman at 35, I could be a bellman at 50, but I can only do this and take the risk right when I'm young and like I have nothing to lose."

A million, that's it?

Now, you're launching you have a ton more experience, resources, the knowledge you have of building these live events, like probably better than any better than anybody else in the world in fighting, right? How fast you turn that business profitable? Cuz we we're not even done with the … story.

It's been profitable since the first

Okay, explain what you did differently.

Everybody complains, I've heard this so much from people online, they're like, "Dana has the best seats in the house. Why is he looking at it on a little tiny screen?" Can you explain why?

You're not running this through committee. You're not like, "Oh, let's talk about should we change these graphics or anything?" It's your taste.

What happens when you see something you don't like?

You have this in common with all of history's great entrepreneurs, cuz they're always You hear from business school, they're like, "Oh, you should build up a team. Yeah, you're going to have to have a good team." And then you just delegate. I heard the story of you kicking through a … door. What was that?

Okay, so explain what happened.

[clears throat]

So, how long does it take you to get your Cuz now you essentially have a team that thinks very similar to you, where you have to make very few changes. They understand and have adapted to your taste. How long does it that that process take to go from you guys don't know what the hell you're doing to I almost have like a bunch of clones of myself Mr. Beast calls it like cloning himself and like his editors, his thumbnail designers. He used to do all that stuff and then he works with them for so long, they kind of can read his mind.

Yeah, I've heard you shout her out on a few of the podcasts, too.

Yeah. How many years did it take you to do that? How many people did you have to turn over? Like, what was that process like?

So, when I listen to all your stuff, one thing I'm curious about, uh and I want to ask you selfishly, it's like without a doubt, you're one of the biggest fight fans in the world. You love fighting. But I almost feel

Really? It's not just that you're going to build the biggest combat organization. You already have, but it's going to be much bigger, right? But people don't understand that like entrepreneurs come and like seek out your advice. You're on the … board of Meta, for God's sake. them what you see cuz they This is not a normal podcast. Why do you like talking entrepreneurs so much? Deel is how the best founders turn the world into their talent pool. I've been studying how history's greatest founders operate for a decade and one thing they all have in common is they understand that recruiting and hiring the very best talent is your most important priority. A players recognize other A players, which is why top companies like Ramp, Shopify, 11 Labs, Uber, and DoorDash all use Deel. Many of the top founders I know have personally invested in Deel after using their product. And what they discovered is that Deel is the best company in the world at building infrastructure for global hiring. Deel will help your business hire, pay, and manage any worker anywhere in the world, so you can retain the best talent anywhere and spend the rest of your time focusing on what you do best, delivering value to your customers. The founder of 11 Labs has a great description of the value Deel can give your company. He said, "We built 11 Labs to break down language and communication barriers. With Deel enabling us to hire and support exceptional talent anywhere, we can accelerate our innovation and bring more voices, stories, and ideas to every corner of the world." Deel is trusted by over 40,000 companies and growing fast. Learn how they can help your business by going to deel.com/cendra. That is deel.com/cendra. I'm curious the difference in quality of entrepreneur and when you started because I've heard you say like on a few other podcasts that you like some of these people are just so soft. Like some of these younger entrepreneurs don't understand how hard and difficult you you literally had to like the UFC would have died if it wasn't for you. Like can you say a little bit about the difference in like the the mentality that you you see? Especially your employ- your the people you have they're fighters. They choose to get into essentially their underwear in front of millions of people and fight, you know, beat the … out of each other. You would think you could control them. It's impossible. You have this unique um combination of almost like, and I don't mean this in a derogatory way, like micromanage, but also like give a lot of freedom to these people. So, like you don't even try to There's two There's two things that come to mind, right? Where it's like, you know, oh, Jon Jones is in the club in in Vegas, what are you going to do? And you're like, he's a fighter. Like there's nothing I can do about it. But also what what what I thought you were really smart on, and ties to what we were talking about earlier, is like you always adopt new technology early. You understood the power of like these TikTokers, these YouTubers, some podcasters, and you essentially just I've heard from them, Dana just gives us access to events, and no You know how to build an audience. You know how to make content. What the hell am I going to tell you? You just to say, come to the events as much as you want, and then make whatever you want. I don't know what any of those are. Look, I want to hear about that in a minute. No, it's like a simple genius. Uh it reminds me of you mentioned the Ellison's earlier and just like how aggressive they are and obviously well capitalized. And I saw this clip recently on X where Larry Ellison was talking Larry Ellison mentored Elon Musk. So like Elon says like, you know, he's one of the smartest people like he's one of the few people that Elon goes to for advice. And Larry Ellison is in this conversation with this like reporter for like a newspaper. And the reporter's trying to tell Larry that Elon is dumb. And he's like, "Have you landed a rocket on a Have you ever landed a rocket much as rocket on a boat? Like show me what you have done." Uh and I just thought that was like beautiful. Like that guy stupid? He's landing rockets. I heard you say one time that you always laugh when people start talking about like the business of UFC cuz they don't know anything about it. Can you say more about that? Yeah. We sell for 4.025 billion, right? No TV deal. We're We're coming up to the end of our Fox deal. We have no TV deal. Nothing. Every … body out there they overpaid, the UFC has peaked, the UFC is this, the UFC is that. All the same … guys that are talking … right now, that's what they said, okay? Spike $35 million deal. Fox, $100 million deal. ESPN, $3 billion deal. And now here we are, 7.7 for 7 years. Everybody. They They They … Paramount. They Paramount overpaid. Just all the same … … from the same … losers. It's just It's crazy. It's just like you have to block all this noise out. These people are … zeros. Everybody that talks about this business and and and and and has an opinion on it are zeros. They've never done anything in their … life except talk. And it's always the same … Cuz these are all people that have no vision, no clue, no whatever. You You know, they were all talking this … in in in 2016 and look where we are 10 years later. Wait and see where we are in 10 more … years. that it took Netflix so long to get into sports. I was saying it way before they did. The thing is is that streaming's great. Right now, I'm like I I don't watch a lot of TV. Almost none, right? Something's really got to get me to And I was saying this before the Paramount deal. Way before. So much so that people like Paramount did the deal with them just cuz of how much he talked about Land Man and Mob Land. Land Man is one of the greatest television shows that I've ever watched ever. And Mob Land, you know, classic Guy Ritchie, unbelievable. So when you think about those two shows, I can go watch the whole season tonight or I can watch it 3 years from now. It's always going to be there. Sports, live sports is a destination. You have to watch it Yep. Exactly. So it always made sense for streaming platforms to go after the sports. 100%. And I'm I'm so glad that you and I are having this conversation that this all ended up happening. Remember everything that was said today on this podcast. And let's talk again in 5 years. I'm talking about all these, you know, literally losers that talk about this sport and absolutely know nothing about what they're talking about. And if you if if you if if you check the temperature right here today, Paramount overpaid, same … that they said 10 years ago about WME overpaying for the sport. It's peaked, it's this, it's that. They don't have the talent, they don't have the stars, they don't have the this, they don't have the that. It's fascinating to me that any of these people that have no idea what they're talking about when it comes to the business because this isn't like some uh some other like the hotel business where it's all the same … Everything we're doing has never been done before. And over the next 5 to 10 years, everything we do has never been done before, either. And watch what we do in the next 5 to 10 years. Very true. I love it. Welcome. I love that we're having this conversation. Yeah. Well, the response was I did a whole commercial in AI after that for the White House. Um but [laughter] uh my response is, why don't you just shut the … up and watch the fights? … do you care what we're doing technology-wise? Every and and when and what's the difference between we were using green screens before that, too, right? And people we still have to hire people to to to do this stuff. Let me tell you what's not I'm not downstairs doing the … AI … We have people that are doing it. Um but it's the future. It's coming. Is it going to be as big as everybody thinks? Is it going to last? Is it going I don't here, right now, we're in. 100% and we did a commercial, I don't know, over 10 years ago uh for the Conor McGregor Jose Aldo fight. It was incredible. It was on the strip, you know, and and they end up meeting out in front of MGM, and all these Brazilians and all Do they think that we really had all those … people out there and that that we really did that? No, that that isn't the way it worked, and that was way before AI. Whatever the new technology is, we're on it. Yeah. Um it's funny because if you look at the situation that California's in right now, right? And all these billionaires are trying to figure out how to get the hell out of there. Billionaires are very important to the ecosystem of the United States, you know what I mean? The amount of money these guys pay in taxes How do you think everything stays afloat? How do you think the state uh comes up with the money to fix the roads and build the highways and, you know, uh infrastructure in every city in America comes from billionaires, millionaires, the middle class, and people who work their asses off and pay their taxes. That's where all the money comes from. I was just doing an interview, I want to I'll say it, but 2 days ago, and they were walking around looking at my office and looking at the gym, and the woman was like, you know, there's hard times right now. Some people are going through it, and don't you think if they're going to see this and be like uh well, if they're going to see this and be like you know oh, this is terrible that this guy had had you're you're not it and you're never going to be it. You you you got the victim mentality and you're never going to be that person. What you should look at what I have and say, "That guy barely graduated high school, right? And uh believed in something, did all the right things. If that guy can do it I can do it." That's how you should think and and I know that there are many different types of people out there. Like I said, there's the 9-to-5 guy that, you know, he wants and and there's nothing wrong with it. You want to work 9-to-5, you want Saturday, Sunday off and every holiday cuz that's the life you want to live, good for you. And then you have the guy who's going to come in and uh grind in the business and and and and run a department and, you know, do very well for himself and uh is a part of building something like this. And then you got the guy that's like, "Yeah, I'm not working for anybody." I'm going to go out and I'm going to I'm going to make it happen for myself and, you know if you look at somebody I've looked at many people and never ever have I looked at somebody who's had incredible wealth built unbelievable businesses and said, "Yeah, … that guy." I've always said, "Wow." You know, and you can learn lots of different things from lots of different people in different industries and and and uh what they built and how they built it and you know, um and you can look at other guys and say "I don't ever want to make that mistake. I don't think that's right." That don't value their employees. People that don't value their employees. I've seen a lot of them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so my thing was this, you know, I was in a situation where I wasn't going to lose any of my money during COVID. Yeah, these people who come in here every … day and grind with me and there were a lot of people that were going to get laid off and a lot of people's whose salaries were going to be cut, bonuses, and all these other things. And I said, "Yeah, … that … We're going through COVID. I I'm not a brick-and-mortar business, right? All I got to do is find a place where I can go put on a fight and beam beam it to uh ESPN. It's all I had to do. And uh you know, my my team was all ready to … storm the beach with me, man. No Nobody was saying, "No, we're not going to work during COVID. Too dangerous and we're we're we're scared." I'm not saying people weren't scared. Everybody was willing to go. Men, women, everybody. I remember when the um the NBA canceled their season. That was probably an oh … moment for you. How long from that moment until you get you did that thing with Abu Dhabi? How long did it take you to find a to in the world to go? Which time though? … crazy, you know that. That's crazy, you know that. The last time. It's at Brooklyn, the Brooklyn arena. And I'm telling these guys don't … pull this on me. Don't pull this … fight. We're going to go. I don't care if there's no fans, whatever. Brooklyn calls and says, "Yeah, we're not going to do it." I said I'll never ever … come to your arena again, just so you know that. You know, cuz we were doing MSG in Brooklyn. I said I will never hold another … fight in your arena ever again. Cool? Cool. They … pull it. So, um I got my … lawyer calling every place in America, cuz once it all started to shut down, it was all going quick. So quick that I would be here in the office, we'd get something done. I live 20 minutes from here. By the time I got home, my lawyer would call me and go, "They just … bailed." I'm like, "What?" Anyway, so this is my my thought process during this time. I don't know how … long this COVID shit's going to go on and how long the country's going to be shut down, but here's what I do know. At ESPN, which is a sports network, the bean counters are eventually going to sit down and they're going to go, "Okay, let's see what we got here. We got the NFL, we got Major League Baseball, we got the NBA, we got the NHL, we got the UFC, and we got the guys who throw the … bean bags into the … holes, okay? Who are we cutting first? … UFC is going to be the first … money that's going to get cut. So, I'm going to figure out how to go through COVID. All my employees are going to stay intact and all this … Iger says, I'll pay you every … dime, no matter how much COVID lasts, whether you do no events or you put on all 44. Then we were getting paid no matter what. So, I could have just said, "Fuck it. Let's all stay home and see how long COVID … lasts." But no, we … we went out and we pulled killer … numbers for ESPN cuz we were the only game And our business grew. It just … blew up and went through the roof. Right. And they've been incredible partners to us since since the day we met them. So, yeah, we end up talking to them. We go to Yas Island and we built the only real bubble that existed during COVID. Like the people who moved into Yas Island from um UAE lived there for months and never went home and saw their family. So, they were all clean. We made sure that all of our athletes and everybody that went over to work was they were tested multiple times. We chartered our own planes. We flew over there. It was the only true bubble that existed in sports at that time. All the other ones were … Very … true. So, um sponsors during this time, you know. We had great relationships with all of our sponsors. But like any relationship in life, you don't know who's who until the … hits the fan. Friends, girlfriends, husbands, work, all these people, you know, when things are good, everything's good. But who's around and who's really real and there and you know, a real partner. You don't know that until … gets really bad. And uh we had this partner that was a good partner all through good times. And then as soon as … any the whole not only COVID but that whole crazy woke era that happened when people were getting canceled and all that other … we had a company that literally was calling here every … 5 minutes, man. And uh it started with I posted a a video supporting Trump on my social media. And they called and they said, "You need to take that down." And I said, "Are you out of your … mind? Who the … are you to call me and tell me who to vote for? It's not coming down and don't ever … call me and tell me who to vote for again." Then they called again, then they called again, then they called again, and then basically when our deal was up, one of the guys who worked there, who was sort of my my day-to-day that I would talk to and I like him still today. Now our deal's up and we're shopping and he calls me and says, "Hey, I'm in town. Can I come by and see you?" I'm like, "Yeah." So he comes in my office and he says, "Hey, man, I got to let you know, my board of directors is losing their patience with you. And I go, You guys got some … balls, man. I'll give you that. Have a seat. We … sit down in my office and I went through the whole thing. And uh He says, "Dana, this is a you know." Says the number of the deal and I said, "Well, I understand. And here's what you can do." You know, back on your plane, take that number, roll it up into a tiny little ball, and shove it up your board's ass. And then coming out of COVID and that whole woke era, I was like, "I'm only going to be in in business with people that I'm aligned with." So, I didn't end up doing another deal with them. Yep. Yeah, I've never thought about um if something doesn't work out like, "Oh, no, I'm going to I don't even think like that." Never even crosses my mind that something's not going to work. I just keep going until it does work. Not true. There's this Bruce Lee quote where he talks about um never say negative things about yourself working on or what you're doing, even if you're joking. Cuz your body doesn't know the difference. It's like this whole thing about um and I saw Rogan talking about this thing when he was talking to some psychologist about um if you just sit around and talk about your … problems all the time, you know, you know Yeah. Which makes sense. It's like um I never take in any negativity. I literally block I call it noise and I block all that noise out. Like Like we're talking about like these guys who report on what we're doing that have no clue what we're doing. Why would I want to hear any of the anything they would have to say? They're zeros. They've literally never done anything in their life, especially in this business. Why would I listen to anything that they have to say? I cut negative negative people out of my life so … fast and it don't matter who you are. So, I walk y'all sort of walk you through what you're saying. I mean, Lonnie, right? I mean, my office, the ball the gym, the it's all the same … that you just said as we go this way in the building. It's exactly what I do, too. I literally have all this … on the walls every day that speaks to me and Let me just tell you a quick Rogan story and I've told some of this before, but think about this. So, we buy the company. The company's based in New York. I got to fly to New York, go in the offices and go through me, alone, Go through every … document, videotape, and everything in there to figure out what's coming to Vegas and what I'm going to throw away. So, they lit- the whole walls are … covered with tapes. I have a VHS, and I'm literally popping tape after tape after tape after tape. And then, uh Ivory Kenan Wayans had had a talk show, and he's got Joe Rogan on. And Joe Rogan starts talking about UFC and fighting. And at the time, he's doing Fear Factor, which is a massive show on television. And it just … clicked with me. I go, "This is the … guy I need right here. I need him to do commentaries, educated on martial arts, he's not afraid to talk about uh controversial … This is my guy." So, I reach out to Rogan, and we hit it off immediately. And uh in Rogan's rise, you know, he's gone through some … personally, too. You know, where I've had people call and say, "Hey, you know, whether it's sponsors or whoever, you know, you got to do this to Rogan." And I'm like, "Fuck. Like the Don't ever … call me. Who the … are you to call me and tell me who I'm going to fire or or or do whatever to? Um First of all, Joe Rogan did the first 12 fights for us for free. Right? Then, when you talk about technology, at the time, I flew all over the country, and I met with every sports editor at every newspaper. Because when we bought this company, newspaper was the king. And these guys were all 60, 65 years old. Ball and stick sports, and every once in a while boxing will get a space in the paper. There wasn't enough room, and these guys didn't get it and never got it. And I'm like, "Well, in the next 5 or 6 years, these guys will all be gone. And there'll be younger guys that come in who'll get it more. But, what we had to do is radio was still very relevant. So, you know, you drop into these markets from the East Coast all the way through the Midwest into the West Coast during drive time and then do the same thing going home. So, what we learned really early is that fighters are bad radio. Okay? They don't show up on time. They sound like they're still … sleeping. The list goes on and on. The only two that were really good at doing radio were me and Joe Rogan. Right? The problem with me is nobody knew who the … I was. So, what we would do is we would switch. I'd do UFC 30. Rogan would do UFC 31. I'd do UFC 32. Rogan would do 33. And you'd have to get up at 3:00 in the morning. We both lived on the West Coast. We'd have to get up at 3:00 in the morning. They'd drop us into the markets on the East Coast from 6:00 to whatever and we would literally go all around the country doing the same interviews over and over and over. And Rogan and I did this for years. To actually explain to people how much Rogan has dedicated I mean you said you heard about it on his podcast has has been a key instrumental part of this company. And for anybody I don't give a … how much money you you you have uh sponsored or whatever. Yeah, no. Nothing's happening to Joe Rogan. Loyalty. Yes, which is the most important Dana, thanks for doing this. thing in the world to me. Thank you.